Ambassador Ricciardone interview by Dream TV on US-Egyptian relations

Dream 2 Satellite Channel Television program "10 PM" Al-Ashirah Masa'an, presented by Mona Shazli in Cairo.

Mona Shazli interviews US Ambassador Francis J. Ricciardone on US-Egyptian relations.

Shazli begins with an introduction on Ambassador Ricciardone's diplomatic and political work. She includes a video report on his work in Egypt and on US-Egyptian relations.

She asks Ambassador Ricciardone how he acquired Arabic and the reason for his frequent attendance of the Moulid of Al-Sayyid al-Badawy.

[Begin interview]

[Amb. Ricciardone] These moulids remind me of similar ones I used to attend in Italy and I like to interact with people.

[Shazli] Do these visits represent only a personal interest or are they an attempt to better the image of the United States in Egypt as public relations?

[Amb. Ricciardone] As a representative of United States I should be like normal or average Americans. I have the responsibility of studying Egyptian culture, personality, traditions, religion, music, and sports. I should understand this as a diplomat and ambassador no matter what the country is and I did the same thing in other countries. I try to understand the people from different perspectives. I study the traditions. I like direct and informal interactions where one can understand viewpoints and ways of thinking better; and this is very beneficial to the practice of diplomacy. It's not a matter of spin or bettering the image, the diplomat should be in deeper levels than that. I enjoy contact with people as a tourist does.

[Shazli] Is there a strategy in your visits to 20 governorates in the suburbs of Cairo?

[Amb. Ricciardone] First, I enjoy tourism. Every governorate attracts the interest of foreigners and has its traditions. The Egyptians' hospitality and friendliness is present everywhere. At the same time we have the formal responsibility of USAID development projects and programs. We have other programs such as student exchanges and international delegations. We also have contacts with different associations in Mansura, Minya, Assyout, Alexandria, and northern Sinai, for instance.

[Shazli] So you are making sure to see if these programs are a success or not? This gives the impression that you do not trust the reports you receive about these projects.

[Amb. Ricciardone] I think it is important in diplomacy that both parties understand each other. Formality is important but if there are only formal relations and knowledge, we will fail in deepening the cooperation between the two parties. American diplomats should understand the Egyptians' viewpoints and everyday life experiences, what they expect from us, and what their ambitions are for the future of their country. How could we cooperate at the local level? One cannot understand it from inside the embassy. It is impossible.

[Shazli] Of course your formal visits to the governorates receive a welcome at the level of governors and administrators but sometimes you get received by unwelcoming slogans against you. I say this frankly because it is published. How do you deal emotionally with this?

University students have shown their disapproval in some of the conferences you attended and others have abstained from attending because of your presence, as happened yesterday.

[Amb. Ricciardone] In fact it is not a refusal of my presence. Sometimes young people are upset because of the American policy in Middle East or in regards to Iraq. I welcome the contact with these youth specifically. In our educational system we are concerned with probing questions more than we are with reaction. We like to exchange thoughts. When I visit governorates, I always visit universities and communicate with young people and professors. There is always liveliness in such discussions.

[Shazli] Even if they are angry discussions?

[Amb. Ricciardone] This is normal as long as there is respect. I personally respect my friends and the opposition and there is no problem in communication.

[Shazli] The state of refusal that your excellency senses at the popular level, to what extent do you think that American policies sometimes become a burden on you as an ambassador who always wants to communicate with Egyptians?

The example in my mind is Bush's visit to Egypt--to what extent did this embarrass you particularly as there was unprecedented disapproval of George Bush's visit from government and opposition in an Arab country.

[Amb. Ricciardone] I think President Bush's visit lately was successful in terms of its objectives. It succeeded in renewing formal communication at the presidential level.

[Shazli] Were four hours enough to renew this communication?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Of course, there were contacts between ministers. There were many visits of Condoleezza Rice to Mubarak. There were phone calls. But I think Bush's visit in person was very important because there was a direct and face-to-face exchange of thoughts. They understood that there is a very important cooperation and agreed upon American-Egyptian diplomacy towards the peace process in the Middle East between Israeli and Palestinians.

[Shazli] Your Excellency, exchange of thought in four hours in Egypt and three days in Israel?

[Amb. Ricciardone] In Israel and also the West Bank.

[Shazli] If we are talking about the peace process and Egypt's consideration.

[Amb. Ricciardone] I don't understand. On one hand, Mona, you say there was no welcome for Bush's visit and it would have been better if he didn't come at all. And on the other hand, you say: No, what is this? He came only for a three-hour visit and that he should have come for a week. I don't understand.

[Shazli] Your excellency. Let me tell you, perhaps opposition trends in Egypt would oppose the visit regardless.

[Amb. Ricciardone] And if he didn't come at all?

[Shazli] Let me say that on the government's part, in Egypt, if the visit was longer, for certain they would not have opposed or protested against it. The difference is understood between the stand of the opposition and the government. Opposition trends always see what is happening in Iraq and Gaza and take one stand but the position of the government is different. This time the government refused the visit because of its shortness. Or, was it for another reason?

[Amb. Ricciardone] No, he was in the region for about a week and visited many Arab countries, the West Bank, and Israel. He engaged diplomatically with regards to the peace process, stability and security in the Gulf. No, he didn't come to Egypt to end his visit, but to inform President Mubarak of its results. Mubarak could have decided to develop the visit.

[Shazli] So in your opinion, it was not a clear sign from the United States to marginalize Egypt from the peace process in the region.

[Amb. Ricciardone] No, Egypt is still a central country in the region in regards to the peace process, Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Sudan, and the problems in Lebanon, and in diplomacy towards Iran. Egypt has an important role in all regional issues, and we recognize, respect, and support that.

[Shazli] The effect of the visit is still present. Do you think that the relations between Washington and Cairo are in deterioration or at their worst state? Mubarak hasn't visited the United States since 2004 and there is no enthusiasm in Egyptian diplomatic statements on the United States. Meanwhile in the American media there have been severe attacks on Egypt. How do you describe this situation?

[Amb. Ricciardone] That is why I think direct contact is very important, and Bush's visit was very important. In regards to President Mubarak's visit, we welcome him in the United States. I don't have the responsibility of commenting on his reasons to visit the United States or not, but I can confirm that he is welcomed in the United States at any time. We respect him and Egypt. We recognize the role of Egypt in all the strategic issues of the region. That is why I always say that the American-Egyptian relations, despite the differences sometimes in some issues, are still strategic and strong. I am sure that they will continue in the same manner in the future.

[Shazli] We have a phone intervention from Mr Karam Jaber, chairman of the editorial board of Rose al-Yusuf, writer and journalist.

[Jaber] I welcome the ambassador, whom we know loves Egypt and Egyptians. What you practice in reality in Egypt is a good and positive thing. But what happens from the American administration is completely different. As if Mrs. Condoleezza Rice reads your reports and acts completely the opposite way.

[Amb. Ricciardone] I understood that this was a comment and not a question. I represent American policy in a direct way but in regards to legislation of democracy and freedom, the secretary of state came and said that we encourage democracy in the country and that every country should find a way to freedom. We don't impose freedom on anyone as a gift from America, no. Our role is to encourage and support. I read the statements of the secretary of state and the president and I say the same things. I understand that Mr Jaber has a different point of view but I don't agree with this.

[Shazli] Perhaps it is one policy with different implementations?

[Amb. Ricciardone] I have been 30 years in the American diplomatic corps. We started with the same policy. I entered the diplomatic corps during Jimmy Carter's time. We supported the peace process between Israel and Palestine. We cooperated with Egypt for this goal. We encouraged and supported democracy and freedom at the time of the shah in Iran. I was in Iran as a teacher when Jimmy Carter came and visited Iran in 1977. From that time to the present our foreign policy has generally been the same. Occasionally methods of exercising diplomacy or American policy may differ.

[Shazli] Are you trying to convince me, your excellency, that the policy of Jimmy Carter is same as George Bush?

[Amb. Ricciardone] To a great extent.

[Shazli] The difference is huge.

[Amb. Ricciardone] We cooperated with Egypt and Israel towards peace. The issue of terrorism was not what it is today, but there was cooperation on terrorism even at that time. In my opinion the similarity is in the method of exercising American diplomacy more than anything else.

[Shazli] We have phone participation from Dr. Essam El-Arian, one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood:

[El-Arian] All Islamic opposition trends draw a distinction between the American people and the American administration's policy. I hope that the ambassador bears our criticism towards American policies, whose administration he represents.

I want, at the beginning, to say that I value the role of the American diplomats, researchers, and journalists who work in the Middle East region, Arab world, and in Egypt who know and live in the region. I think that the introduction was in this regard and I hold them responsible for restoring what the American people stand for to bridge the gap of communication between American administration and the Arab and Islamic nations.

We are against the US support of dictatorships in the region and in the Islamic world. Condoleezza Rice talks about support of democracy and freedoms as the US ambassador mentioned. However, when elections brought opposition groups to the People's Assembly, the American administration dashed the dreams of democracy and freedom in Egypt.

We are against the fact that Americans support the Zionists in Palestine and do not acknowledge the Palestinian resistance as a movement for freedom. Hamas and Fatah are national movements for freedom and have nothing to do with terrorism. The US refuses to communicate with these resistance movements.

[Amb. Ricciardone] We don't support dictatorship in Egypt or in any other country. We try to support Egypt and Egyptians in economic, political, and democratic development. But we are not responsible for development in the country. Government and civil society set their priorities for development. We have programs of support with the government and others directly with charitable institutions on the condition that they are registered with the government. To cooperate with Egypt we should cooperate with its government and it is not a matter of dictatorship. The country should find its way towards democracy and freedom on its own, and we encourage that.

[Shazli] This did not happen with Iraq. You said interference in its internal affairs is a noble cause and necessary in some countries. Do you think that the way of implementing democracy is the peoples' decision?

[Amb. Ricciardone] We have different programs for democracy. We encourage democracy with moral support, in formal, concrete, and legal ways under Egypt's constitutional law. In regards to Iraq, I don't know if Dr. El Arian or Mr. Jaber communicates with the Iraqi people. We do communicate with Iraqis formally and informally. I personally had many Iraqi friends and still have. On one hand they want the American forces to retreat at the appropriate time. Now the majority of Iraqis want military support as defense from insurgents.

[Shazli] Are the majority of Iraqis for the American presence?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Yes, through their government that is elected democratically under the Iraqi constitution. The Iraqi government is legitimate and recognized by all members of the United Nations. So officially the Iraqi government wants cooperation with us against insurgency and terrorism, and we are committed to that. Bush said many times prior to the Americans entering Iraq that we don't want the presence of American forces one day more than necessary.

[Shazli] Your excellency, you insist on using the word "American presence" but nations in the region describe it as occupation.

[Amb. Ricciardone] Outside of Iraq. I wish journalists and reporters would go to Iraq to get in direct contact with Iraqis. I watch Egyptian TV a lot and I don't remember seeing any foreign affairs minister with Iraqis. There is not much debate in the Arab media. There are no Arab ambassadors in Iraq. Can you imagine? How could you communicate with Iraqis if there are no Arab ambassadors in Iraq? We have an ambassador in Iraq. We have continual contact with Iraqi journalists and businessmen. We understand from them that they are concerned with terrorism, extremism, and Iranian power.

[Shazli] Your excellency, allow me to understand the American administration's point of view. Let me refer to one of the viewer's questions. If the United States were invaded, would you fight to free it or not and would you be a terrorist?

[Amb. Ricciardone] This is a comment more than it is a question. Thank God, we have not had the experience of occupation and invasion but two times; once in Hawaii in 1941 at the beginning of World War II by Japan and the other on September 11, 2001. And we endured the violence. Therefore there was a severe reaction and it was normal, but the case in Iraq is more complicated than that.

[Shazli] Your view is that nations in the region do not understand that Iraqi people are content with their situation and we are the ones who are not.

[Amb. Ricciardone] The Iraqi people have a different viewpoint from other media and press in Middle East, because there is no normal communication between them and Iraqis, which I find strange.

[Shazli] Your excellency, this is an occupied country. There was a diplomatic delegation there in which Ambassador Ihab Sherif was assassinated. Life is unstable and the government's legitimacy is questionable. If there were elections, they were not approved by the Iraqi people. There is a resistance movement there.

[Amb. Ricciardone] Is a reporter from your channel present in Iraq? Does Dream have a reporter in Iraq? No.

[Shazli] Dream is not a news channel, but let us list the news channels who are present there. Al-Arabiya, al-Jazeera and al-Hurra channels are present there and the news reported from Iraq is not favorable, but frightening. What is reported on in Iraq affects Arab citizens' feelings.

[Amb. Ricciardone] We have very different point of views, but we cooperate with the Iraqi government and the Iraqi people to build a better future and stability in the country. They want that. They want the support of our military forces until they are able to protect the country by themselves from terrorists, who are mostly foreigners.

[Shazli] This is the conviction of the US ambassador. I will ask you about the relation of the American administration with the Muslim Brotherhood and opposition, because there is an accusation which stipulates that the US Embassy communicates excessively with the Egyptian opposition.

[end interview]

The program continues with a video report on the criticism addressed to American policies in the region. The reporter notes that "the question that poses itself is if it is logical that the American administration protects its interests, where are the Arab administrations to defend Arab interests?"

[resume interview]

[Shazli] This report takes us back to previous issues. It summarizes the complaints of the Arab citizen about the American administration's policies towards Iran, Palestine, and Lebanon. It notes that the United States acts only for its interests, which is your right, but what is not right is that it does that extensively at our expense.

[Amb. Ricciardone] Unfortunately, I think in all these issues, there might be differences of opinion. I think there is misunderstanding in some issues at least. For instance, in regards to Iran, we recognize the right of Iran to establish nuclear power stations. There are no differences on this point; however, we regret to see that Iran does not abide by its international commitment on nuclear programs. There is no cooperation on Iran's side with the International Organization of Nuclear Energy. There is no transparency in Iran's nuclear program. The entire world, particularly Arab countries, has concerns like us on the Iranian program of uranium enrichment for instance.

[Shazli] Why is a nuclear program forbidden for Iran and allowed for Israel? Why do you worry about Iran's nuclear program and not about Israel's and instead support the Israeli nuclear weapons program? Don't you think that the United States is exaggerating in trying to convince the region of the danger of Iran? George Bush, in his visit to Gulf countries, warned about the danger coming from Iran, despite the Gulf leaders' statements on historical and social ties between them and Iran. There is an exaggeration here.

[Amb. Ricciardone] I don't think we exaggerate the danger of Iran, especially that Arab Gulf countries are worried about Iran's plan for them and the region. They want to have good relations with Iran and we ourselves want a diplomatic resolution to this issue. We don't exaggerate the conflict with Iran. It is not between us and Iran but between Iran and the United Nations. We should not forget that there are three UN Security Council resolutions that impose sanctions against Iran.

[Shazli] The United States pushed in this direction and exchanged statements between Ahmadinejad and President Bush which reflect the state of conflict between the United States and Iran. Going back to Israel, the Arab citizen wonders what the difference is between Iran and Israel. You say that Iran is a religious country; Israel is a religious country too. The last US statement was that Israel won't give up the Jewish nature of the state. Iran has interests in the region and Israel has expansionist plans.

[Amb. Ricciardone] There are at least two differences between the countries, with regard to the nuclear file. First, Iran is a member of the nuclear non-proliferation convention of nuclear weapons and Israel until now has not participated in this convention, unfortunately. We wish in the future that Israel would sign this convention. It is not realistic or right that anyone expects that Israel participate in this convention under present circumstances. Second, Iran threatens the presence of Israel openly through its President Ahmadinejad's statements.

[Shazli] Because Israel threatens the presence of Palestine.

[Amb. Ricciardone] On the contrary, there is cooperation. There are contacts between Egypt and Israel, the United States and Israel and Palestine. The president of the Palestinian authority has met with the Israeli Prime Minister a number of times of late. There have been a number of meetings since Annapolis. There are contacts and meetings between ministers on occasion. There is progress and sometimes there are setbacks. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is expected to come to the region soon, hopefully. She will consult with friends in the region about this matter. Israel's position towards Palestinians does not have any relation with Iran's position towards Israel. Iran's president said that he wants to get rid of Israel whereas Israel has never said such a thing about Palestinians.

[Shazli] That is encapsulated in the exchanged statements and the state of tension in the region.

[Amb. Ricciardone] This is right. There are tensions and conflicts in the region. That is why especially Egypt and we should cooperate to find a solution to these conflicts which are Iranian threats against the region and Israel-Palestinian issue. There is no other way out. War, insurgency, and terrorism are not solutions to the conflicts between Israelis and Palestinians.

[Shazli] The problem, your excellency, is what one describes as terrorism and terrorists and who is pushing the other to take measures that are pointed to as terrorism. And I think this issue is impossible to be resolved in this debate, but there are radical differences between the Arab citizen's mentality and view on this issue and the American administration's point of view. Let's return to internal affairs in Egypt. What is the relationship between the United States and the Muslim Brotherhood?

[Amb. Ricciardone] What do you mean by the word relationship?

[Shazli] How do you describe this relationship? Is it an off-and-on or continuous relationship? Is it a relationship of encouragement and motivation?

[Amb. Ricciardone] We don't cooperate or have mutual projects or anything as such. But we have a position of respect towards everyone elected to the People's Assembly and Shura Council, for instance. We respect any politician or statesman or faction in Egypt on the condition that they act in accordance with Egyptian law. We are ready to communicate with them. With regard to the Muslim Brotherhood, we differ on many ideas, but we respect them as Egyptians and their presence in the Assembly.

[Shazli] You invited many Muslim Brotherhood members to your home and to the embassy on many occasions.

[Amb. Ricciardone] Yes, on many occasions, for instance when the US Congressional delegation visited Dr. Fathi Surour, president of the People's Assembly. Dr. Surour invited us to the Assembly and we met with chairmen of committees and opposition and among them was Dr. Ahmed Katatni who represents the independents or Muslim Brotherhood in the Assembly. There was a meeting in Dr. Surour's office. After that we had a reception in my house and we welcomed all the Assembly members. It was a matter of respect.

[Shazli] The Muslim Brotherhood group that the Egyptian government considers as a banned group that wants to obtain power and whose real intentions towards the ruling regime in Egypt are not known, the US had more relations with them before September 11 [2001].

[Amb. Ricciardone] In the past there might have been more meetings, but they were simple contacts.

[Shazli] Not support?

[Amb. Ricciardone] They do not want support nor do we want to support them. We differ on many views, but we are always your guests in the country. As American diplomats, we should respect you and this is our position towards the Muslim Brotherhood. We differ with the Muslim Brotherhood, Nasserites and many of the opposition inside and outside the People's Assembly. We consider that the best way to fight misconceptions is through democracy and freedom of expression. We do really respect Dr. Essam El-Arian, who contacted us on Egyptian TV. Nowadays, in Egypt there is freedom of expression and that's how it should be.

[Shazli] I would like to know how you see the idea of a political party of Muslim Brotherhood. Do you agree or disagree with it?

[Amb. Ricciardone] This is an Egyptian legal issue. What you like to do. You have a constitution and laws. For us, we see that it is very fitting and beneficial in any democratic country that there is freedom in the establishment of political parties because any country benefits from free debate on condition that the participants in these debates abide by the law, respect other parties and other peoples' rights. Any country can benefit from the exchange of views in a democratic way. It's your call. There are discussions and it is up to Egyptians to want to establish political parties on the grounds of religion or not, but in the United States it is not possible.

[Shazli] Back to internal affairs of Egypt. Your Excellency, accusations were lately addressed to your person and some addressed at the American administration in general. The most important one was the request that the journalist and MP Mustafa Bakri presented in the People's Assembly. It was about a question to Egyptian foreign minister about the rumor on Mubarak's health. In his request, he stated that the US ambassador was the source of leak to this rumor. This accusation took place not only in the People's Assembly but also in the Egyptian press. Some observers considered that this caused you certain problems in Egypt.

[Amb. Ricciardone] Regardless of the source of this rumor, we are available 24 hours a day to the media and ready to answer any questions or to comment on rumors from MP Mustafa Bakri. It is in our interest to reply immediately and with frankness to any questions. I am happy that in my three-year term here, many journalists became accustomed to contacting us and we replied immediately with frankness. But in this matter they didn't contact us. I was surprised to read this (rumor) in the press, including government newspapers like al-Goumhuriya, without contacting us. I don't know why. At the end of the issue, I had to present my comments to TV and the press. The comment was that the rumor was untrue.

[Shazli] Did anyone from high levels speak with you with regards to this issue?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Of course, we talk with our friends and guests about politics in Egypt and our relations, but always in a respectful way for Egypt and the president. We have the honor of contacting the president from time to time and I have always seen the President in good health. I don't know where these rumors came from. I think that sensitivity in internal regional circumstances permits these rumors. There are views of conspiracies. Egyptians like these stories. Isn't that right?

[Shazli] A conspiracy mentality?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Conspiracy mentality? A little... A sort of entertainment I think.

[Shazli] You say that we believe in conspiracy theory?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Regrettably, there are still traditions from the 1960s between some politicians and journalists, that's why I say...

[Shazli, interrupting] Was this rumor to the benefit of the United States, for instance as a way to find things out?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Not to the benefit of Egypt either. We are committed to continuous communication especially with the media and the press in a clear manner. We like to reply to questions directly. There should be no speculations. I've never met Mr. Mustafa Bakri and if he wants he can visit me in the embassy and I can visit him in the People's Assembly. It is possible. We have diplomats and political attaches who visit MPs all the time.

[Shazli] We all know that MP Mustafa Bakri is one of the most hostile opponents of American policies in the region.

We have Mr. Sameh Ashour, chairman of the lawyers syndicate, on the phone:

[Ashour] Welcome Mona, I want to ask his excellency on his opinion about the new ambassador and her unacceptable rude statements in dealing with Egypt and her threat to use USAID to pressure Egypt, its government, people, and organizations. Why such a manner of expression, is it because we are patient with American positions in Iraq and Palestine? Don't you feel the hatred that Egyptian citizens and Arabs in general have towards the United States? I can't differentiate between the civil and government organizations. The United States is one frame and one position. Why all this hatred and aggression?

[Shazli] Ambassador Margaret Scobey's statement has upset you to a great extent.

[Ashour] In fact the whole American position upsets us. I want to convey to him that if the Egyptian government acts in official diplomacy with American institutions, this does not have a relation to the public opinion on the United States and the civil institutions. The people who take aid from you do not represent us, nor the businessmen you deal with, nor those who benefit from USAID in the name of Egyptian people. These are not Egyptian people. Egyptian people are against and do not support American positions.

[Amb. Ricciardone] I hope that the chairman reads all of the interview with Margaret Scobey on our website. Anyone who reads it entirely will see how the statement is written in good, moderate, and standard diplomatic language. In fact she rejected the suggestion of Senator Kerry to freeze economic or military USAID to Egypt. We refuse to put conditions on USAID in a clear way. I hope the chairman reads the entirety of the interview of my friend Margaret Scobey. And by the way she is a nice and polite person.

[Shazli] We didn't get this sense from her statement at all. In her statement there was an insistence on pressures to a certain extent to emphasize democracy in Egypt. There was sense of superiority, as if the British high commissioner was back again. Her statement reminded us of this feeling.

[Amb. Ricciardone] You will see eventually, after our Congress approves her appointment, that she has a good personality, experience, and welcomes communication with people. She speaks Arabic even better than I.

[Shazli] I have two important questions, your excellency, is it true that the American ambassador in some private meetings, said that Egyptian government, just as the Egyptian opposition, wants to exploit the United States? What is your opinion and position of your administration on what is called "inheritance"? Are you in favor of Gamal Mubarak as the next president of Egypt or not?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Assistance has become the center of political debate in the country from both the government's side and opposition's side. It is normal in any free open country. I think economic and military assistance has achieved its goal in the 30 years since Camp David. There is cooperation and partnership with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian government and civil society are the ones who set their priorities. We cooperate in the achievements of Egyptian priorities.

[Shazli] Do you think that the government exploits the United States in USAID?

[Amb. Ricciardone] I think the Egyptian government and people benefit from USAID, rather than exploit it. In political debates someone might exploit USAID politically. I think the opposition benefits from the assistance and that's our goal.

We should update our relations in regards to USAID. I mean that trade and investment should take the place of this assistance. The assistance is temporary and will end. And thank God Egypt succeeded. Egypt needed the assistance more in the 1970s and 1980s. Now Egypt has succeeded in many economic and defense fields.

[Shazli] But Israel received more assistance than Egypt. Why don't we hear about cutting assistance on Israel for instance?

[Amb. Ricciardone] Assistance is not a gift for peace. We want Egypt to succeed in developing social, economic, and defense realms. Defense is important to Egypt as much as it is important for us. Because Egypt is our friend and we want Egypt to be strong in all areas of security, economy, freedom, and democracy. Let's not discuss Israel--this is another matter.

[Shazli] Do you think that Israel is out of the picture? Part of the assistance aims at maintaining balance in the region. I think Israel's presence is always important when we talk about USAID.

[Amb. Ricciardone] Of course Israel's presence is important and has a role in American-Egyptian relations. But American-Egyptian relations are not trilateral but bilateral. That is what I mean.

[Shazli] Do you think that the United States' goal is to reduce or terminate aid to Egypt?

[Amb. Ricciardone] The hope is that Egypt will not need assistance from the exterior. International trade and investment replaced the foreign assistance not only from the United States but from all countries in the world. With regards to trade and let's not talk here about investment, last year 2007, the trade between Egypt and the United States increased to $7.5 billion in one year in comparison to the military and economic assistance, which was less than $2 billion.

[Shazli] This number is opposite to approximately $5 billion dollars in American exports to Egypt.

[Amb. Ricciardone] Egyptian exports to the United States increased to $2.5 billion opposite to $5 billion in American exports to Egypt. We are the largest partner of Egypt in trade. We import more goods from Egypt than from any other country in the world.

[Shazli] This is the direction of the American administration or at least the information stipulates that.

[Amb. Ricciardone] The international trade provides much more employment opportunities than the assistance. And this is our objective.

[Shazli] Question on the political future of Egypt. How does the American administration view the presence of Mr. Gamal Mubarak as a president of Egypt?

[Amb. Ricciardone] In terms of the future of Egypt, we are very optimistic for many reasons. As you say "inheritance," we respect Egypt. We don't have the right or the responsibility to choose the new president of Egypt. We will respect anyone who comes to power on condition that he accesses it through constitutional, legal, and legislative ways that are accepted by the Egyptian people. We respect Gamal Mubarak's personally. I personally had the honor of meeting with him more than once. We got introduced to his activities in the NDP. But electing the coming president is strictly an Egyptian matter.